Friday, November 07, 2003
Matrix Revolutions -- Talk about your bait and switch ad campaign

The Matrix Revolutions

Entertainment Marketing 101

It’s not a story. It’s not a philosophy. It’s a global marketing experiment that’s all about control. And George Orwell saw it coming.

Comments

26

The link between the matrix… and the reality of this world.  Is the same as the link between reading a book..and imagining how it looks in your head.  The answer is when you read that book.. you visualize the picture… then watch the movie…and have your mind blown.  It’s a simple task of introducing a variable into a unsolvable equation.  y=x .  Doesn’t matter if it’s true… but it is linked. 

There’s no point in comparing the matrix w/ our reality.  Because it’s a link.  You will not be able to find a situation where you cannot compare aspects of that situation to the 3 matrix movies.  The movie creates an (almost infinate) number of possibilties.  And it’s due to it’s very nature and purpose.  NOTE:  the majority of the world can care less about this discussion here, and a huge percent of the world will not read this… does that mean it does not exist?  To them it doesn’t.  Which is GOOD.  We, as in people with this type of perception (some of the people/writters here/and others), don’t want( or need) everyone to think like this.  There’s no use in trying to ‘explain’... because the answers are everywhere… movies are just a link between imagination and reality.  Reality because of the light refracting off the screen into our eyes..and our brain telling us that those specific beams of light create those pictures..and we then believe that it’s not real…. but it’s THERE. 
I do not wish for people to understand these things.  They may consider these ‘strange things’ for a couple of days.. or maybe ponder for a year or two.  But they will give up, and maybe they’ll have kids.. or get a new job…. or car…. or have an affair.  Then their focus is gone.  Back to the drawing board for them.  And away they go. 

In my 23 years on this earth I’ve learned one thing:  I’ve been here for 23 years.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 18 Nov 03 at 06:50 PM
27

If you don’t wish for people to understand, why did you post a comment?

I think we have be careful about using the word “reality”—everything that we can think is real, even if it’s real only as a thought.  It’s more accurate to talk about “how” something is real than “that” something is real.  The “Matrix” is “real” as a fictional construct set up in the Matrix movies.  It may have some symbolic significance to our current lives, and that’s where the discussion comes from.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 18 Nov 03 at 07:05 PM
28

Hey Jim

Yeah I did mean the end. Sure, it wasen’t a wooden cross, but a cross made of machine parts.


Havok

Im not sure you understand the purpose of these discussions.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 11:26 AM
29

Okay.. yes, purpose is what drives you.  Well, I’m not much into reading opinions… but I can get the ‘jist’... from a glance.  Your talking about Neo being sacrificed.  Well that was so very obvious in the setup when he went to the machine mainframe…  and even more obvious when neo turned in the the light as he was ‘dying’.. the light formed a cross on his chest….. and he was in a position like he was on the cross….and when it was over…and they carried him away, you can’t help but to think ‘It is finished’ in your heart. 

But even the story of sacrifice has it’s own underlying meaning….There really was no sacrifice….

Already made the choice (sacrifice).. now has to understand why..which takes away meaning of the word sacrifice..since he had no choice!  And YOU CAN’T CHOOSE PURPOSE; OR DISTRIBUTE PURPOSE…UNLESS YOUR THE BOSS.

I apologize if I don’t follow along totally w/ the conversation…. I just want to say ‘something’.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 02:38 PM
30

Thanks much for pointing out those details—they’re very telling and I will be on the lookout for them next time I see the movie.  I think I do recall Neo laying in basically a crucified position while he was plugged in to the Mainframe.

I probably don’t understand your purpose for these discussions, but I do understand mine.

Are you sure you can really say Neo didn’t make a sacrifice?  He lost Trinity, was blinded, etc.  But I think you’re saying he didn’t make a sacrifice because he didn’t choose.

Remember, the Oracle didn’t tell Neo in the second film that the choice was already made for him.  She told him that _he_ has already chosen, and that he now has to understand the reasons for that decision.  So choice is still real and individuals do make them. 

The choice Neo made at the end to visit the Mainframe was the trajectory of all the other smaller choices he made leading up to that point, including the choice he made to take the red pill rather than the blue, the choice to seek out Morpheus and Trinity, the choice to get into computer work, etc.  All these choices are real, were Neo’s personal choices, and were a function of, and contributed to, the person he is and has become. 

Our character determines our fate.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 02:52 PM
31

Oh and in response to the question about why I don’t wish for people to understand.  I can only attribute that to ‘vanity’ I guess…. But that would mean that I think I’m right and others are wrong… and down that trail… where I’m not interested in going… so I just post my thoughts.  Not looking for anyone to agree….and most certainly not looking to disagree w/ anyone… and ‘understanding’ is a form of agreeing and disagree.. because you would have to ‘understand’ in order to form an opinion on what I’m saying.. and the problem w/ this whole world is… people have been generating opinions on top of opinions… burying the truth thousands of years ago… and causing a huge blind fold on all of humanity.  So that’s why I don’t want people to ‘understand’.... sort of my own form of ‘control’.....
hey… I ‘control’ people for a living….. what other thought process should I live by?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 03:25 PM
32

There are ALWAYS going to be two side to every story in the history of humanity…and all things.  But, the truth lies somewhere in between.  Yes sacrifice or No sacrifice…. is a game not worth playing… because of those darn brothers understanding of that fact…. therefore…  the only answer to to what is the matrix is… the matrix.. the title…  and everything else… every place people try to take the meaning….
You can take your interpretation of the movie in one direction (lets say north).... I can take it in the opposite…(south)....  with totaly different opinions… and different details.. we’ll eventually form a circle and our opinion (will meet at a common truth).... and for most people (like neo).. they aren’t quite ready for that.  Damn, there I go again.  But, I can play devil’s advocate with you…. just have the opposite opinion…to prove a point.  That movie ‘matrix’... is (in my opinion) a kind of poison for minds that chose to disect…because… it’s a divide an conquer of ‘beliefs’... when your beliefs are divided and conqured… so are you.  That’s why we’re all going to buy the 3 disk DVD set when they package it up all nice and nifty….damn…(I’m know for going on a tangent)

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 03:33 PM
33

Eh, once you say this:

“burying the truth thousands of years ago.”

That is, once you admit that there ever was or is or can be “the truth,” you immediately open the door up to opinion, “understanding,” disagreement, agreement, etc…

because truth, at least in linguistic forms, cannot exist any other way.

In other words, if someone tells The Truth, and another person Expresses an Opinion, how will they sound different from one another?  Both are talking, using words, saying something like X is equal to Y and not Z, etc. 

I’m all for open interpretations of literary or cinematic works, but I don’t make this the cornerstone of my life.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 04:03 PM
34

elephant,

why does havok misunderstand “the purpose” of this “discussion”?  maybe i misunderstand.  there’s a Purpose?

Posted by bibble on 19 Nov 03 at 04:48 PM
35

Well… I look at everything as the cornerstone of life…. not just movies…. Like you opinion of me…and my physical being… I can gurantee that you perception of me is the opposite of what I am.  I’d put money on that.  So, when I say truth.  I don’t mean your truth.  Or x’s truth, or y’s truth, or anyone else’s truth but my own and how it relates to my life. 

I’m no movie buff.  I’m not here to position myself.  I’m just that person who will test a person’s ‘truth’.... without the disagreement.  You know?  Well.  I know this is true because I have what you call ‘split personality’.... literaly.  And I fight with two different truths… that both are right in my case… so if there’s more then one truth… what does that do for the word truth?  Truth is not the sword in the stone.  ( well maybe it is)....  we can talk about religion….. football… gangs…guns…drugs…gangsters… philosophy…humanity… anything… I still have this same voice.. and my pasion is for life.. the reason I talk about movies… is because it is the ultimate escape from reality… it’s a gift and we don’t even know it…..
and like you said…  I can open the door for you to form opinions.. and choose your ‘side’..... but in the end you have to walk through it and make the choice to either disagree or agree…. and with all humans.  It has to be one or the other right?  But for me its… neither… it’s ‘wow.. great idea’..
‘great opinion’.. ‘great imagination’... its all love here…
I am hypocracy (spell?)...and a living contradiction….I’m impossible… I shouldn’t be here.. but I am…

okay… here’s a mental picture of who I really am…. (and it’s even worse when I talk about ‘educational’ stuff)... I’m 23 years old… light-skinned african american.. 6’1 220lbs..(former football linebacker)...you would think of me as an athlete… I’m from the inner city of Chicago….. you’d never think I was the master of the universe…..I’m just the devil’s advocate…. and so is the matrix.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 04:51 PM
36

Yes….there’s a purpose.  It’s all around you.  It’s in the air you breathe, the food you eat.  It’s there when you wake up in the morning and there when you go to bed.  It’s there when you help your landlady out with the trash, there when you go to church, or go to work.  You can’t see it, you can’t feel it,  you can’t smell it, but you’re surrounded by it.  It’s inescapable.

It’s Brittany Spears’ arse.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 04:52 PM
37

Humans love to assign purpose… even in a conversation…when humanity has no business..even considering the fact that they may have anything to do w/ the purpose of anything…..

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 04:54 PM
38

Wait…don’t you need to know where we belong—or what our purpose is—before you can say we assign meaning even “when humanity has no business.”

In other words, you have to have a clear sense of what the business of humanity is before you can tell it that it’s gone somewhere where it has no business.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 04:56 PM
39

OH.. by the way…
did anyone catch the meteor shower last night/this morning?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 04:59 PM
40

Jim..
you are like the + to my - ( most people are)... But there is a difference between us that has no explaination.  Which may never allow us to agree on any subject.  But does that mean we can’t be friends?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 05:01 PM
41

The problem w/ the world today (and unfortunately I’ve had to find out the hard way a couple of times)...

(I know… I’ve got a problem wit the world(damn right))

BUT… if truth were to come to this earth.  And show everyone… the world wouldn’t beleive him if they couldn’t have it or understand it… he would probably be killed. 

How would you feel if a person took away your perception of what’s ‘really real’?  Let’s say your married…. your reality is to have your wife in your life….
and then a killer comes and destroys your reality…. how would you feel?  Out of control?  Lost?  What is the human reaction to having those fears?  (Sort of like many’s fear of black people).... oppression… death.. you know.

If a ghost were to appear to you… you’d run.

If you saw fire come from the sky.. you’d be scared.

If you see a vision….your a skitzo..(your wrong/not sane)

Fear = ignorance or reality

nothing to fear but fear itself..

Jim if I changed what you thought was real.. just w/ my words… you’d disagree.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 05:09 PM
42

Who said we can’t be friends?

All your observations are correct.  Now…so what? :). 

Does that mean that what I think is real isn’t really real?

The wife example probably isn’t really good, because she’s equally a reality to her family, her friends, her co-worker, and most importantly to the killer, who couldn’t kill her if she wasn’t non-existent.

Because that’s the case, I can say the killer deserves to be punished for the actions he committed against -our shared reality-.

A shared reality you acknowledge in the act of using language…

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 05:17 PM
43

How nice… you know.. the people I like the best are the people I can disagree (I’m only saying disagree….well you know)with… without and ‘arguement’...

did you read my comment on the ‘Kill Bill’ section?  I would love to hear your response on that one….

oh..and one question.. would you consider me an educated person?

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 05:36 PM
44

There’s a Kill Bill section?  Man, I DO need to go there…would like to read the article/comments. 

There are plenty of educated people who share your wrong opinion, so I have no way of judging your education.

:)

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 05:45 PM
45

Wouldn’t it be great if we could talk about real life.. like we do these movies?  Unfortunately because humanity looks at movies as fantasy there could never be a crossover into reality…. BUT because humanity doesn’t believe in something… doesn’t make it non-existant.  Debating is annoying to me.  Especially over opinions.  Now I can tell you a truth believe it or not. 

And anyone can let me know if he/she disagrees:

THERE IS control of your free will

THERE is control over this world

WE ARE NOT the most intelligent race that exist in the univ.

HUMANITY will fail the ultimate test

THOSE who lose their humanity are ‘right’

GOOD = EVIL

I am CRAZY

Now because I said I’m crazy… all validity of what I said is gone out the door..correct?  (judging is the worst thing a person can do)

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 19 Nov 03 at 06:40 PM
46

Ok, here’s my shot:

“THERE IS control of your free will”

Do you mean we can exercise individual free will, or that someone else is controlling us, or both?

“THERE is control over this world”

Do you mean God?  Human society?  All kinds of things?

“WE ARE NOT the most intelligent race that exist in the univ.”

You’re right. So what?

“HUMANITY will fail the ultimate test”

What is the test, how do you know about it, and how do you evaluate failure?

“THOSE who lose their humanity are ‘right’”

How are you defining “humanity” and how can we lose it?

“GOOD = EVIL”

Do you mean that what we normally think of as good—meaning, people loving each other, caring for one another, telling the truth (as you seem to think you are doing) are really “evil” things, and that the things we normally think of as evil (such as murdering people, lying, manipulation, etc.) are really “good”?

Do you mean to speak of good and evil in moral terms or in pragmatic terms?

“I am CRAZY “

No one who really is would ever say it.  The really crazy think they are sane.

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 19 Nov 03 at 06:59 PM
47

Sorry.. I leave work at 4pm Central time..(5pm eastern)
here’s my ‘story’ (and it is neccessary to tell this like this for you to understand why I know I’m ‘insane’ (and also consider that I do not respect humanity’s definition of ‘sane’ so I’m not afraid to say I’m crazy in the way you see it)

Well, about the ‘crazy’ aspect.  When I was 21 (2 years ago) I learned an important lesson.  This is around the time when I aquired my ‘other’ personality.  I had spent 3 yrs in college.  Okay, I’ll back up a little.  In high school (I graduated in 98’) the only thing that kept me from the streets was my football.  I had plenty of opportunities to drop out and make big money.  (Understand that a 15 yr old, where I’m from, can easily make $1200 a day during the hours of 5am-12pm) At this point I was a ‘b’ student.  I never did any homework.  But I was considered one of the smartest in all my classes, but I never went to class.  Okay, I’ll make everything short.  In college…I’m not ashamed to say I was the most popular person on the whole campus..and easily the most recognizable…after 3 years… I was considered by most as intelligent, and very ‘sane’ & popular.  It all came crashing down when my father’s tax problems caused me to lose all my grants/scholarships.  I was kicked out.  On top of that my driver’s license got revoked… which means I couldn’t be caught on the road.. and I had warrents for my arrest, among other problems… (all beyond my control, and I was totally innocent of ALL these situations, life turned against me)
I was kicked out of school for those reasons… and lost it all… which lead me back to Chicago.. and to the streets…..where the rules were different.. more to my advantage… I began to make $$$.. and I was building something good… my own business…. that included many different aspects….
my business was half street/half legal…

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 20 Nov 03 at 12:17 PM
48

part 2
I worked w/ cellular phones.. a created (keep in mind I’m 21 yrs old)..out of the blue to get phones to people who would be denied by Nextel (because of credit reasons)..I would manage multiple business accounts…. 50 cell phone lines each… but these businesses..well, you know…. and I would over charge the monthly bill to these people.. for my own personal ‘management’ cost..(hey.. I had to keep up the records).. all by myself…and I also had a team of 8 people… who…. anyway.. (I don’t know why I’m telling this story..but it’s to make a point) I was up to around $800-$1000 on a good day… and many of my clients…saw my service as an advantage because it would not have their name on the phone account…soo… now they would not be responsible for any recordings or ‘taps’... that may be placed on their accounts…and my phones were also popular because this was the time when nextel ‘direct link’ feature was hot… and the new i90 phones came out.. valued at $400 a peice.. Now, I don’t know how/where all these ideas for this business came from.. but whoever this person was that was with me… took control of the whole situation…(very similar to ‘fight club’) I was a one man army… dealing with other armies (gangs/orgainzed crime..ect)... then one of the owners of a cell phone store, whom I had dealings with, slipped up.  And the domino effect began, and nextel shut off ALL of the phones I had… which created some (to say unhappy would be an understatement…considering the fact that some of my clients relied on their phone to keep their $2000+ a day business’ going)... and the death threats poured in like the flood gates being opened…. and considering that my driver’s license was still revoked (and I would be thrown in jail if caught driving).. I was a sitting duck on the street.. I knew that I would be killed in the next few hours/days/weeks… because these people all where know for killing for less…a lot less)..... I’ll finish in a few…

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 20 Nov 03 at 12:17 PM
49

I’ll finish if you want me too.. I don’t want to bore anyone.. but I like telling my story…. I you want me to finish just say so… if not.. I won’t.. but do want to tell you, that I edited the first part so it wouldn’t be too long (I left out many exciting details..but I’m not trying to entertain..just make a point).. AND I would like to tell you, that this is all the boring set up stuff… the real ‘crazy’ stuff I haven’t spoken of yet… so it’s up to you (many people have told me that I should write a movie from this…. I gurantee it would be a hit)...

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 20 Nov 03 at 12:52 PM
50

Crap, that’s one heck of a story.  Yeah, finish. 

So far you sound very intelligent, that you were doing what you thought you needed to do to survive, but since some of these things were illegal you got burned when you got caught, that’s all.  But please, go on.

Although you should note I never said you were crazy, so it’d be hard for you to know how I see what crazy means…

Jim

Posted by Jim Rovira on 20 Nov 03 at 02:27 PM

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